Discrete Trial Training

Dear All,
I've really just recently got my VB program about 80% underway so am only
now coming to terms with what the early learner program is like. For us,
being non-verbal and recently starting sign, means much of our emphasis is
on manding and tacting. But what happens to the old programs and if there's
breakdown somewhere and you need to retarget how do you do that? I was told
I could throw the old drills in across the day but where? If I put shapes in
RFFC's, like is not meeting like so you can't say she knows oval versus
circle for example if there are only objects on the table. Does this make
sense?
I love the new way of working but am worried I'll lose some of our formerly
learned material because we're not yet ready on the VB schedule to be up
there. Any thought or suggestions from anyone?
Eileen, Cary, NC

Hello! I am the parent of a 3-yr-old high functioning autistic boy. We
are looking for a therapist for 3-5 hours a week. We live about 15 minutes
outside of Boston, MA in Medford. Please contact me at
dawnrh@.... Thanks!
God bless, Dawn
--- Dawn Hall
--- dawnrh@...
--- EarthLink: It's your Internet.

A parent that I have been working for here is moving to Monterrey, CA...to be
exact, Fort Ord. I have been working on and off doing ABA with their
4-year-old son with Autism, but mom has been a bit unsure of the whole ABA
thing. Anyways, I just reccommended to her to read, "Facing Autism." She
LOVED it and is now very interested in trying to get ABA for her son. She is
moving in one week! If anyone on this list near there could write me back,
this mom is in desperate need of resources and parents to possibly contact.
I should also mention she has 4-year-old triplets (one of them has the dx of
autism). He is very high functioning and very verbal, but has many behaviors
that are a problem (mainly OCD and starting some aggression). Please write
back ASAP.
Thanks so much!
Shauna
PS-I also posted this on the ME-List. It would be great if someone doing
Verbal Behavior could respond. While I've only been to Carbone workshop #1,
I tried VB with this child and he responded much better than traditional
Lovaas. He is VERY verbal and like I said, his main issues are behaviors.

Louisiana Families for Effective Autism Treatment
Presents
a two-day Workshop on ABA,
How it is done.
When: September 29 and 30 8:00 am to 4:00 PM
Where: Covington La. Courtyard by Marriott 504 871-0244
$130.00 per person $200.00 per parent couple
Space is limited. To reserve a place send checks made out to LOU FEAT to,
Louisiana Families for Effective Autism Treatment
1003 South Monroe
Covington La.
For more information 504-867-8961 or email jimjimdeb@...

Does anyone know of a software program that does block designs for a young
child (age 3). He did very well with Toddlers Reader Rabbit with block
designs, but he absolutely hates making tables/chairs/trains with blocks.
He just doesn't pay attention to it so I thought if I could find a program
(more advanced than the Toddler one) we could work on it on computer.
Thanks a lot!!
Sally, mom to Michael, ASD 3 yrs

Forwarded message from MI-FEAT list:
Parent Advocacy Training by COPAA
First Parent Training Program Set for Detroit, Michigan Area
COPAA's first training program developed solely for parents will be held
on Saturday, September 16, 2000, from 8:30 AM to 4:30 PM. The program
will be held at the Detroit Marriott Southfield, 27033 Northwestern Hwy,
Southfield, MI 48034. Special sleeping room rates of $60 single/$70
double are available until September 1. The hotel's direct telephone
number is: (248) 356-7400.
Faculty Members
Faculty for the program includes:
Sonja Kerr, Esq., of Inver Grove Heights, Minnesota, who is Chair of the
COPAA Board;
Matthew D. Cohen, Esq., of Chicago, Illinois, current President of
CHADD;
Stewart W. Hakola, Esq., of Marquette, Michigan, formerly with the
Michigan Protection & Advocacy, Inc., now in private practice; and
Joyce L. Ginsberg, a professional advocate from Bloomfield Hills,
Michigan.
Program Content
The program will provide an overview of the evaluation process, contents
of and strategies for developing individualized education programs
(IEPs), the discipline process for students with disabilities, and
strategies concerning mediation and due process. There will also be
ample opportunity for questions.
Registration Fees
Registrants for the program will receive a comprehensive handbook of
materials, specially prepared for this program, lunch and refreshments.
The registration fee for the program will be $125 for parents; parents
who are members of COPAA or members of local sponsoring organizations
qualify for a registration fee of $95.
Organizations in southern Michigan, northern Ohio and northeast Indiana
interested in becoming sponsoring organizations should contact COPAA's
Executive Director, S. James Rosenfeld, at (954) 966-4489.
COPAA (Council of Parents Attorneys and Advocates)is an independent,
nonprofit, tax-exempt organization of attorneys, advocates and parents
established to improve the quality and quantity of legal assistance for
parents of children with disabilities. http://www.copaa.net/

The Autism Autoimmunity Project
formally invites you to attend:
Gala 2000
to Benefit Autism Research
Wednesday, September Sixth, Two Thousand
Seven o'clock in the evening
The College of Physicians of Philadelphia
19 South 22nd Street
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
Honoring:
Vijendra Singh, Ph.D., Utah State University
Andrew Wakefield, M.D., Royal Free Hospital
Presenting:
F. Edward Yazbak, M.D., Falmouth, Mass.
Please join us for an evening of dancing, elegant
hors d'oeuvres, and networking to benefit Autism Research.
( ) Yes, I/We would be pleased to attend the Gala 2000 on September 6,
2000 to benefit Autism Research.
Please reserve the following:
_______ PREVENTION-Donation $500.00 *Admittance for one includes:
VIP cocktail reception 6:00-7:00PM, Gala 2000 7:00-11:00PM, Special
invitation to festive patrons party at a private home on September 12, 2000
_______ TREATMENT-Donation $300.00 *Admittance for one includes:
VIP cocktail reception 6:00-7:00PM, Gala 2000 7:00-11:00PM
_______ DEFINITION-Donation $150.00 *Admittance for one includes:
Gala 2000 7:00-11:00PM
Corporate Partnerships available. Please call Susan Gould 215-682-7971
*The non-tax deductible fair market value of the event for responses
received
is $200.00 for each Prevention ticket, $100.00 for each Treatment ticket,
and
$65.00 for each Definition ticket. The Autism Autoimmunity Project's tax
identification number is 22-3560062.
( ) No, I/We cannot attend Gala 2000 but wish to contribute
$

Victoria,
How many tacts does your son have? How many adjectives does he have? Vince
told us that the child needs lots of tacts and adjectives first before they
can begin to understand the prepositional relationship. If you think he
has enough, then I hope someone else has some good suggestions for you,
because we have not worked on this yet.
Lynda

<<<<<Message: 3
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 17:57:04 EDT
From: ABAqueen1@...
Subject: IEP
HI list~
Does anyone have any IEP's for young children based on the ABLLS? If you do
and it is on your computer can you send it to me if you do not mind. I am
going to an IEP in 2 weeks and school just sent their rough draft goals to
the mom and they are so vague!! Thanks guys!!
Jenn
Hi Jenn,
My son's goals are based on the ABLLS assessment. The goals that our
consultant wrote for him are at this link in his IEP presentation (you have
to scroll down) http://www.iqonline.net/murphy/bradley/iep_presentation.htm
I can't take credit for the "What Bradley needs" part... it is on a website
somewhere meant to help others, and it helped us!
The school wanted the goals re-worded "for everyone to understand" and they
had goals of their own that we accepted. The schools goals are obvious...
such as the "lip closure" one!!! Make sure to add 25% 'bargaining' room to
any goals that you write so you can show that you are 'reasonable' by
COMPROMISING on the goals. Here is the link to the final agreed upon goals:
http://www.iqonline.net/murphy/bradley/goals.htm
Kim Murphy

I will be on vacation starting on Wednesday, July 12th thru Sunday, July
16th. If you have any problems concerning the DTT-NET list please contact:
Kimberley at onelessrck@...
Thanks!!! :)
Jenn in North Carolina
Senior Therapist
DTT-NET Moderator

Hi everyone,
We are currently working on categories with my son (3.6 years old) where we
ask him to name items in a category (eg., Name some animals.). We've done
broad categories such as animals, furniture, clothing, zoo vs. farm animals,
colors, shapes, vehicles, etc. Does anyone have suggestions for additional,
more specific categories (such as "things in a kitchen") that would be age
appropriate? I've come up with a few more but now I'm stumped! Thanks for
any suggestions.
Claudia

HI list~
Does anyone have any IEP's for young children based on the ABLLS? If you do
and it is on your computer can you send it to me if you do not mind. I am
going to an IEP in 2 weeks and school just sent their rough draft goals to
the mom and they are so vague!! Thanks guys!!
Jenn

For those of you who get HBO, there is a documentary at 6:PM on an autistic boy
called "George: A Family Documentary." Now all I need to do to is find someone
who gets HBO and can tape it!

I found the reference for the potty training procedures that we have
successfully used:
Azrin, N.H & Foxx, R.M. (1971) A rapid method of toilet training with the
institutionalized retarded. Journal of Applied Behavioral Analysis, 4, 89-99
Don't be put off by the title, it is a behaviorally based program that you
can modify somewhat for your child. It has worked successfully with each
child I know that has used it. Most universities should have JABA for you to
make a copy of the article.
Steph

Thank you all for the suggestions regarding potty training. Having to diaper
twins for the last 3 1/2 years has been expensive for us. Thank goodness I
don't have seven babies to diaper ;0)....................
Michelle
1 down and 1 to go.........

Diana from Kansas here:
This was posted to DTT-NET a week or so ago.
Bye-bye............from Di ;+)
(Special Ed. teacher & Mom to 10 year Eric)
"Start by doing what's necessary, then what's possible and
suddenly you are doing the impossible."
--Saint Francis of Assisi

I'm sure someone has already suggested this, but someone on the ME-List and I
think she is on this list, has a wonderful site with PECS symbols on it.
http://trainland.tripod.com
shauna

http://www.dotolearn.com/
I don't know if these are PECS pictures per se, but they are line drawings
and they are free - this is a great site to check out anyway - Angela

Dear listers,
A dear email friend received a diagnosis today mental retardation and possible
LFA.
She was dx by Valerie Kershchen @ Wesley Med. Center in Wichitaw.
This person told this mom that she couldn't dx autism until age 6!
Also proceeded to tell her that her child will never be able to get married etc.
you know the depressing drill those doom sayers give....Sounds like a Bryna to
me! Said it is taking the child (girl) a year to develop 4 months and so she
will just fall farther and farther behind...I hate this kind of negative
GARBAGE!
Anyway, can listers in the Kansas (near wichitaw PLEASE advse on1. consultants
either in the witchitaw and surrounding area, or consultants willing to travel
there.
Also any medical doctors who are autism familiar and supportive of intensive
interventions as well as open to medical and/or dietary interventions.
Financial resources and/or school districts that will pay for ABA etc.
This mom is crushed by what she was told but her little girl is so young and
still has so much time ahead of her that she needs SOMEONE who beleives that
autistic children can learn and learn alot!
Thanks for your help.
Also if you want to email me privately I will forward all replys to her.
Thanks a bunch!
Donna :-)
sdcarv@...

Anyone in Alaska??????

ARCHIVE searches. You will need your password for egroups to use these
services.
hard one too!! I'll add a couple of suggestions...if you got a new game..you
could say "Let's play Guess Who!" and prompt."How do you play?" Also, my son
likes to help me make things in the kitchen.."Let's make pizza!" prompt.."How do
you make pizza?" Actually, you could say let's make anything..and prompt..like a
lighthouse with blocks etc. When I see my son interested in things I'm doing
I'll ask him, "Do you want to know how to do this?" "Ask me." I know we did
all the stuff like doing a funny noise or making a toy do something and
prompting..How.. We just didn't work on that a whole lot but my son does ask
How questions very appropriately now. I don't think kids just naturally ask how
questions a lot. I don't know that my normal three year old asks how very
much..of course, she thinks she already knows or can do anything!!!
Santapadre. She shared some games that were made for her daughter. Tagboard
had lines drawn on it to form boxes. In each box a "clue" was written..for
example, This is something you cut with... Then the answers were written on
square pieces of tagboard like cards..the child has to match the correct cards
on each square..I tried this with my son and he loved it. I made a game just
using paper because I think he could go through many of these games very quickly
so I didn't want to bother with the tagboard. You can make the clues specific
for your child.like this is your dog..etc. You would just want to be very
careful that your clues can match only one answer so that it is not confusing
for your child. I thought this was a creative way to do RFFC. I guess you
could also make a matching type game using a circuit connector. You'd have a
built in reinforcer if your child likes lights!!! Th!
ey are real easy to make..just use a piece of tagboard, brads, and a circuit
connector or battery tester (which I got in Wal-Mart).
There is a family there who has been in touch with FEAT-Houston about setting up
a program and would really like to observe someone's program. However, Houston
is over 6 hours away. Please contact me if you have any information.

I am new to this list and have yet to figure out what RFFC is. Could someone
please fill me in on this and anything else you think I should know?
Thanks,
Layle

We have a book called "Who Am I?". It is a children's book about farm
animals. There are RFFC's on one page (I say moo, I make milk, I live on a
farm) then you turn the page to see the picture of the animal. My son
loved this book, so I've made our own books hitting other targets. This
makes the drill portable so it's easy to take them anywhere.
Brebda

Dear List,
Not long ago there was a post on the AUTISM list, and I believe the ME list
about lead therapists, consultants, etc., and responsibilities, etc. It was
very good.
There was also a thread about whether one had an obligation or
responsibility to warn other parents of unreliable or difficult therapists
and/or consultants.
I have wondered for a long time where we draw the line between letting
bygones be bygones and chalking up a bad experience to experience or
reporting, either without a name or with a name. I think this is an
important issue for parents, and of course therapists since they are
effected, but as parents we have so much to lose.
Recently we had hired a person who said they would act as a lead therapist
paying them more than any of our other therapists with the understanding
they would help run meetings, write programs, help with data and spread
sheets, information for therapists, training in particular since I am so
tired and working directly with my son in 1-1 DTT as well, learning about
him and how to help him in a real way. This person did NOT do this. What
was done was either done late, not at all or in fragments and never
delivered. Hours promised were canceled fairly frequently and when the
person came, they came more because they had slots available and apparently
felt not actually spending REAL time working with my son was okay. The
person observed a few times, less than they said they would other
therapists maybe three or four times max, less with others, and showed the
therapist for instance how to prompt Picture Activity Schedules, but NEVER
actually came and worked with him on this theirself and never actually did
DTT on a regular basis to learn how he learns best, establish pairing and
develop a relationship. They told our person in Florida who was coming up
that they would take care of certain things and did not. I feel very gypped
and very troubled by this, and want others to know that, but don't want to
be vindicative. Yet weeks later it is clear this person has not done half
of what they eluded to and we are having to start all over again.
My son is not a small, easy kid in the sense of being immediately patient
and cooperative, on the other hand people have started and taken to him
very fast and liked him very much, and he is very well related to most
people. He is not violent, or aggressive, although once in a while he yanks
hair, but does not even pull it in the real sense to hurt, or bite or
anything.
A year ago we had a person act as a consultant who was not qualified,
charged a lot and was VERY, TERRIBLY unreliable, etc. This has not been our
best year, and I feel like I am seeking out of state half the time for
people to possibly help us, because of the local situation. The person was
also a parent who had done programming and is different than the so called
lead therapist.
My question is what do you all expect from a lead therapist. How long would
you give this person who canceled their first appointment for a supposedly
good reason, but basically continued missing, being late, etc., fairly
often for the times scheduled. The consultant from Florida, not a big name
was helpful, but said she could only do so much if there was not a game
plan, dialogue, reliability and program sheets, etc., to follow and work
from and adjust.
I agree.
I want to know how many hours do you all plan on working with the senior
level or lead therapist and how much do you pay especially in New England
for experience and what are your expectations. I hate to get too cynical
and bitter, and I want to remain open and caring about new staff.
Jennie

Sorry, in my previous message the old post did not copy.
I was unable to find the actual charts we use but can explain the principles
of it. Basically, the day you start the child no longer wears diapers or
pull-ups so that you can notice immediately when there is an accident. A few
minutes before the half hour, you give them as much liquid as they will take.
On the half hour you sit them on the toilet to urinate. While sitting, the
situation should be reinforcing so they can access books and toys. As soon
as they go, huge reinforcement is delivered. Praise and a tangible
reinforcer they really want but never get anywhere else. As soon as they go,
they get to get off the toilet. If the child never goes, they sit up to 20
minutes. Until the next time to give liquids, you stay with the child (we
targeted manding). Every 5 minutes you do a "dry pants check" where you
indicate their dry underwear and give social praise and a tangible reinforcer
if desired. this reinforcer should again be strong but not the item they
receive when they actually go on the toilet. If the child has an accident,
we used positive practice where the child had to go from the spot of the
accident to the toilet 3-5x (depending on the age of the child). They walk
to the toilet, pull down their pants and sit, we usually commented about pee
going in the potty, pull up their pants, and return to the site of the
accident. Another approach is overcorrection where the child is required to
clean the area where the accident occurred.
The chart allows you to record data regarding how much the child drinks, if
they used the toilet, how long it took, etc. As soon as the child initiates
using the restroom, you no longer take them on a schedule but continue to
reinforce using the toilet.
Steph

Are there any families doing an ABA program anywhere near McAllen, Texas?
There is a family there who has been in touch with FEAT-Houston about setting up
a program and would really like to observe someone's program. However, Houston
is over 6 hours away. Please contact me if you have any information.
Thanks
Carol Sloan

Hi list
A while back someone posted that Michael Fabrizio was coming to PA (I think)
to do a workshop on fluency. Can that person email privately. There are
some people in our area that are interested in having him come.
Jenn

Hi!!
Just wanted to share an idea that I got at a Solutions workshop with Cathy
Santapadre. She shared some games that were made for her daughter. Tagboard
had lines drawn on it to form boxes. In each box a "clue" was written...for
example, This is something you cut with..... Then the answers were written on
square pieces of tagboard like cards....the child has to match the correct cards
on each square...I tried this with my son and he loved it. I made a game just
using paper because I think he could go through many of these games very quickly
so I didn't want to bother with the tagboard. You can make the clues specific
for your child..like this is your dog....etc. You would just want to be very
careful that your clues can match only one answer so that it is not confusing
for your child. I thought this was a creative way to do RFFC. I guess you
could also make a matching type game using a circuit connector. You'd have a
built in reinforcer if your child likes lights!!! They are real easy to
make...just use a piece of tagboard, brads, and a circuit connector or battery
tester (which I got in Wal-Mart).
Truly:)

The Sundberg/Partington book provides a great chapter on communication and
the advantages and disadvantages of each.
Shauna

Laura,
I don't have just a ton of suggestions for how....I always thought that was
a hard one too!! I'll add a couple of suggestions.....if you got a new
game...you could say "Let's play Guess Who!" and prompt.."How do you play?"
Also, my son likes to help me make things in the kitchen...."Let's make pizza!"
prompt..."How do you make pizza?" Actually, you could say let's make
anything...and prompt...like a lighthouse with blocks etc.. When I see my son
interested in things I'm doing I'll ask him, "Do you want to know how to do
this?" "Ask me." I know we did all the stuff like doing a funny noise or
making a toy do something and prompting...How.... We just didn't work on that a
whole lot but my son does ask How questions very appropriately now. I don't
think kids just naturally ask how questions a lot. I don't know that my normal
three year old asks how very much....of course, she thinks she already knows or
can do anything!!!
Truly

Hi all-
I need HELP!!! ;0)
I'm potty training my twins (Ethan & Ian, 3y6m) and while Ethan is doing
wonderfully (wearing "big boy" pants and going on his own). Ian is not doing
as great. He "goes" ANYWHERE! If you can help me in any way, PLEASE, I
appreciate it.
Michelle

Hi List~
I have a friend who wants to do research on sign vs PECS. She has the Verbal
Behavior reprints book but anything else you guys can think of that might
help?? Please send the info to me as not to clog the list!!
Jenn in North Carolina
Senior Therapist
DTT-NET Moderator

It might have been someone on this list that suggested the use of a small
book that could be carried to public places to remind the child of
appropriate behaviors.
Is anyone doing anything like this? I was thinking of putting together a
very small inconspicious book with pics to describe "no noises","no shirt
biting",etc,etc,ETC!
I'm trying to figure out a good teaching procedure...maybe a token economy
where we'd place stars on the pages and picture of rewards or choices on
final page?
He's now responding well to and understanding time-out. I think he might be
able to benefit from a visual reminder now in public places. Just looking
for any information.
Thanks.
Michael Burkhart

Hi all-
Here is Bradley's Lapeer, Michigan page.
http://www.iqonline.net/murphy/bradley/lapeer.htm
I put a link on here to "letters of support for Bradley Murphy". I want to
show our community and the school district that we have a lot of support...
from all over. It would be wonderful if Bradley wound up with a lot of
letters on his site. :o) I know that we are not the only ones going
through this... that is what is so sad about this. Our situation represents
thousands of others and I have heard many stories much worse than ours. But
I still have to do everything I can... even the little things. We do not
have the money to hire an attorney so we have to use other means to try to
make our case stronger. Even if it does nothing... it will not hurt.
Please consider taking a few minutes out to write a letter of support that I
can put on his web site. I would like to list names, cities & states as
well. We would really, really appreciate this. Thank you.
Kim Murphy
*feel free to forward*
"To laugh often and much; to win the respect of intelligent people and the
affection of children; to earn the appreciation of honest critics and endure
the betrayal of false friends; to appreciate beauty; to find the best in
others; to leave the world a bit better, whether by a healthy child, a
garden patch or a redeemed social condition; to know even one life has
breathed easier because you have lived. This is to have succeeded."
Ralph Waldo Emerson

I am unable to access the STARS school S/P website. Does anyone have
a phone number? Thanks.
Sue Henderson

Dear Listers,
This was in this weeks paper in my town. I am sick to my stomach and want to
respond but I am not an eloquent writer.
Can someone give me a little help in response to this.
I want to write a letter to the editor. Danielle, Nan,Michelle,Jeff,
Lois,Margaret?? Any letters already drafted for news agencies that I could see
to get an idea of what to include?
Thanks a bunch!
Thanks,
Donna :-)
PS...I could use a list of ingredients and research articles to mention.
Here is the article:
Our Children Need Not Suffer
By: Sandy Crossland R.N.
Nationwide, we celebrate National infant Immunization week every spring for one
week. Infant and childhood immunizations should be celebrated daily by all
parents and caregivers. Vaccination is one of the most effective ways to
protect our children, especially infants and young children from 11 potentially
serious diseases.
Today, in the U.S., approximately one million, 2 year old children are missing
one or more of the recommended vaccine doses. One visit to the clinic or
doctors office for shots does not fully immunize or protect a child from
pertussis,(Whooping Cough) diptheria, polio, chicken pox, measels, mumps, and
rubella. Children not fully immunized will become adults who may be exposed
unknowingly to these vaccine preventible diseases and have serious
complications.
New vaccines are being developed and tested yearly, Varicella (chicken Pox)
vaccine is the newest vaccine available for toddlers through adulthood. This
common childhood virus causes itchy blisters lasting for 5 to 7 days. Parents
are usually only concerned about skin scaring and time missed from school and
work. Parents need to understand that this virus can cause neurologic
complications from brain swelling, pneumonia, and ear infections.
Children can be easily immunized against chicken pox and other diseases, so
why do parents make their children suffer needlessly? The Morrow County
Immunization Coalition and other community providers, have a goal to raise
Parent awareness about childhood immunizations and ensure children are properly
immunized. The Coalition held a poster contest for the Iberia Elemntary 5th
grade class to create posters on the theme "Be Wise Immunize". The winning
posters were reproduced onto placemats for area restaraunts to promote the
importance of of childhood immunizations. Children who received vaccines the
last week of April also received coupons and incentives from Conni's Icecream
Shoppe, Family Classic Video and the Mt. Gilead McDonald's Restaurant.
Immunizations protect not only individual children but also the entire
community. Immunized children do not spread disease to other children or adults
in the community. Therefore, all parents, caregivers, health providers, and
community organizations need to reinforce the need to immunize all children.
To learn more about required immunizations and schedules, contact the Morrow
County Health department at (419) 947-1545, Dr. Brian Bachelders office at
419-947-7015 or Dr. grant Galbraiths office at 419-362-6033.
To learn how you can get involved with local immunization activities, Call the
Morrow County Health Department at 419-947-1545.

Hi Listmates. With the s/p method, sign is preferred over PECS for
several reasons which are explained in the book. Keeping this in
mind, I am wondering if and how you do activity schedules. Do any of
you use picture activity schedules? If so, how do you stick to just
keeping it a schedule and not allowing your child (or yourself!) to
use it as a communication board?
Thanks!
Maryam in Saudi Arabia

I am curious to know if there are any families in Alaska doing Verbal
Behavior?

Any ideas to help build spontaneous Lang?? The child I work with is learning
at a very quick pace and many things from her environment but she does not
use it much. For example, we have not done anything with occupations but
today we saw a fire truck and she knew lots of things about the
firetruck/firemen but she does not talk about it without me questioning her.
She has made a ton of progress in a short time but we want her to use the
language outside of therapy and without 100 questions!
Jenn

I think everyone is going to get tired of reading my posts on signing but
someone requested I post something I recently sent to the Me-List so here it is:
I have written a couple of times on this topic before but recent posts have
brought it up again. I would like to encourage anyone with a child with poor
fine motor and/or poor imitation skills to not rule out sign language. I have a
slow learner with both and he is learnining sign.
My 8 year old son, Jonathan, has been in an ABA program since he was 2 3/4 years
old. We tried diligently to work on vocal language and though he learned to
imitate some sounds, could never do so consistently and could never imitate lots
of sounds.
At about age 4 1/2 we tried the PECS system. Although the made some progress,
he really stalled until we tried again a year later with better strategies.
(After attending 3 days of training). Some of our problems were probably
related to his lack of wanting things--he was actually too easygoing. At age 5
1/2, he began to use PECS successfully although we never could get him past very
basic requesting and his rates of spontaneous requesting were fairly low.
At age 7 1/2, I attended a workshop given by Vince Carbone and became acquainted
with B.F. Skinner's Analysis of Verbal Behavior and Sundberg and Partington's
work. I also began to understand the intellectual (and research based)
reasoning for using sign language. My son has very poor fine motor skills
though and his imitation skills are even worse so I still wasn't sure he would
be a candidate for sign. However, Dr. Carbone did look at him for me and still
recommended sign so we gave it a try.
We began teaching sign in June 1999 and by June 2000, Jonthan has learned about
35 signs. He uses them frequently and spontaneously. He is happy to answer
questions (like "What kind of animal barks?" or "What do you like to eat?") with
sign and he HATED using PECS to do something similar.
Jonathan still has poor fine motor imitation and still cannot learn signs by
imitating--they all have to be taught by hand over hand prompting. Many of his
signs have to be modified (like Dog is two pats on the leg--not the true sign
but close enough). But, his communication skills overall have jumped way up!
He works a lot harder at trying to communicate than ever before and when he
doesn't have a sign he is learning to point and lead--things he didn't do much
of before sign.
Teaching sign is harder than teaching PECS but has been completely worthwhile.
It is very important to choose high level reinforcers for beginning signs and to
make sure the sign can be learned easily enough. Don't start with a difficult
fine motor movement or even one that is hard to prompt. It is important to set
up and provide enough opportunites that the child gets lots of experience
signing (even prompted) and develops the knowlege that this stuff gets him what
he wants.
When we began sign, Jonathan had some pinching and scratching behaviors that he
used to communicate "No" or that he didn't like the demand place on him. At the
same time we started teaching sign, we also began using a slight negative
consequence for those behaviors. We saw an immediate drop off of the behaviors
and a big jump in communication and have only seen the behaviors again in a few
instances. I personally think the signing is a huge component in the success of
losing those behaviors. Signing is FAST. Jonathan doesn't have to go and get a
book. Pinching and scratching were much faster than giving us a symbol and that
was a problem.
There are lots of good tricks and strategies for teaching and prompting a child
to learn sign. I would be happy to share some with those of you who have a
child like Jonathan. Just email me.
Carol
tsloan@...

Hi, I am new here and would like someone to kinda give me the simple
version of some of the systems that you all are talking about using
for your children. I have developed my own style in teaching my
autistic son and he is doing pretty well. I have gotten some books and
tried to educate myself on different methods but I really get lost in
the language. There are honestly so many different abbreviations for
methods that I have sorted out some of them but still lack the ability
to understand what you are referring to in treatment/teaching style to
be able to gain from the conversation. I read a great post by someone
giving an example of the NET, which is something I do just didn't have
the correct label for. I have seen so much on ABA and heard happy
results but I have read the manual for therapy and it seems a very
restrictive learning style for my son. Any thoughts or corrections
would be appreciated and helpful Thank you, Carol

Hi List,
Would any of you knowledgable people be able to reccomend a book,
manuel, etc. on working up a strong behavior management program for
our son who exhibits sib? He is almost 6 and this has been an on-
going problem for awhile. It became so bad last year, he was put on
prozac, which he is still on. It has helped somewhat, but not 100%.
Much of his sib is sensory related. The more he's engaged the less
he does, but he needs SO MUCH sensory input, he'd probably need
someone "on him" all his waking hours. When he exhibits sib because
he's angry, or to avoid work (which he does much less since prozac),
we can deal with that using a helmet, or other restraints. But the
on-going day-to-day sensory based sib is much harder to deal with.
Any suggestions are much appreciated.
Eileen

Dear listers,
The Jericho School in Jacksonville, FL is loosing it's lead teacher. Her husband
has had a job transfer to FLINT, MI. Stephanie is very interested in working
with families in that area. If you are interested in finding out more, please
contact me and I will get your message to her.
She is planning on being there mid August.
She is a wonderful teacher. She was one of Zachary's intake teachers when he
first arrived at Jericho. This year she also shadowed a child in the public
schools. So she has a wide spectrum of experience with children with Autism.
I do not have her educational background but I am sure she will be willing to
share that information with you.
Rhonda Miga
list-owner
bbird098@...

Dear listers,
I am forwarding this with permission. Please, if you live in Ohio take a
minute to do this! Also, if you are on a list that has not received this
notice yet forward it on tonight!
Donna :-)
From: Donelle West <kman1991@...

Q: How many women with PMS does it take to screw in a
light bulb?
A: One. ONE!! And do you know WHY it only takes ONE? Because no one else in
this house knows HOW to change a light bulb. They don't even know the bulb
is BURNED OUT. They would sit in this house in the dark for THREE DAYS
before they figured it OUT. And once they figured it out they
wouldn't be able to find the light bulbs despite the fact that they've been
in the SAME CUPBOARD for the past SEVENTEEN YEARS. But if they did, by some
miracle, actually find the light bulbs, TWO DAYS LATER the chair that they
dragged from two rooms over to stand on to change the
STUPID light bulb would STILL BE IN THE SAME SPOT!! AND UNDERNEATH IT WOULD
BE THE CRUMPLED WRAPPER THE STUPID @*!#$% LIGHT BULBS CAME IN! WHY?! BECAUSE
NO ONE IN THIS HOUSE EVER CARRIES OUT THE GARBAGE!! IT'S A WONDER WE HAVEN'T
ALL SUFFOCATED FROM THE PILES OF GARBAGE THAT ARE
12 FEET DEEP THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE HOUSE. THE HOUSE!! IT WOULD TAKE AN ARMY
TO CLEAN THIS...
I'm sorry...what did you ask me?
~~~~~
Kandy
If I could show you how to make $500-$800/mo at home part-time,
with no selling, inventory, or MLM type pitfalls, would you like to hear about
it?
kny@...
Kandy - Aspiring Midwife - Wife to a great man,
Mother of six, - Home-schooler/Home-birther
Love is the answer - Give in to God

LOL! I can identify with the problems with phrases! I remember my little
girl asking me if she could put her "pants on" on. Hehe. It was hard to
convince her after that, that they were just called pants, not "pants on".
Kandy
If I could show you how to make $500-$800/mo at home part-time,
with no selling, inventory, or MLM type pitfalls, would you like to hear about
it?
kny@...
Kandy - Aspiring Midwife - Wife to a great man,
Mother of six, - Home-schooler/Home-birther
Love is the answer - Give in to God

I'm so excited today because I asked my son last night "What do you like to
eat?" and he gave me a response that hadn't been taught!! (Cookies) I
believe our recent work in the last two weeks on "Select by Class" has given
him this new skill. A few months ago I started teaching him rote responses
in conversational drills. It shocked me that he could so easily drop the
"canned" response and substitute something so appropriate. I got greedy and
asked him later "What do you want to drink" and he replied "Milk"(Rice
milk). Yep, it was another response that had not been taught!
We had "Food" as a target in select by class but not a "Something you drink"
target.

Does anyone know anything about "Links to Language" ?
My speech therapist refered to it as something that integrates speech/verbal
behavior with discrete trial...
I can't find anything on the net... thought maybe someone here knew
something about it.
My s/t is also going to get me more info, but I wanted to get a head start.
Sue

I am losing two of my therapists in August. If you know of anyone in
Peoria, Illinois who is a good therapist (or would be if trained), please
let me know.
Thanks. Sally

Does anyone know websites about Skinner's verbal behavior? Thanks.

Sorry, I'm new to this board and forgot to leave my e-mail address, for leads or
if you're
interested in working with my child, my e-mail address is
hbrundrett@...
Thanks!

We have a 4 1/2 year old with PDD who still has a lot of difficulty verbalizing.
Aside from rigorous
ABA therapy, which he needs badly, is there anyone out there who can tell us
their experiences
with a Montessouri school or its concepts, and if they indeed are helpful with
these kinds of
kids.

We need a few therapists to get our home program started in the fall. We have a
4 1/2 year old
boy with PDD needing ABA therapy. We live in New Braunfels, Texas about halfway
between
San Antonio and Austin. Any leads would also be appreciated.

I will be out of the office from 06/19/2000 until 06/22/2000.
If you have questions regarding:
- Project Dude, contact Deborah Hill @ 7-6258
- PM process & tools (incl Gateway), contact Robin Sencal @ 7-7922
- budget related questions, contact Cindy Sievers @ 7-4827
If you need to contact me, please page me at 1-800-SKYTEL2, pin #8889169842
and I will return your page as quickly as possible.
Thank you.

We are looking for a therapist to work with my 7 years old PDD son (bright,
verbal, effection). We live in the South 45 area, 20 minutes from Downtown
of Houston. Flexible hours. If any one interrested, or if you know any
one, pls. send an email to: tanhoang@....
Sincerely
Tan Hoang.

Hi,
Through signing we've built a strong echoic and thought that dropping
sign was the next step. However, we recently brought sign back in
after hearing Carbone discuss that some strong echoic children have
trouble retaining tacts without it as a self-prompt. I am
trying to sign almost everything to him (mainly the noun, verb, or
modifier that I think is significant) and I am getting spontaneous
manding from him where were having trouble before. He was at the
backdoor wanting to leave and I signed and said 'later' and he signed
and said 'open the door'. So shocked, I reinforced and then signed
and said, 'OK' and he signed and said, 'bye bye in car' (so we drove
to the mailbox and he was great about it when we had to come back
in). Without the signs this would have been an echoic exchange and
he wouldn't have spontaneously replied or he would have taken 'later'
as my 'final answer'. Are other parents seeing this
and how much do you sign with your children to achieve more
spontaneous exchanges? We went back to sign to fend off any issues
when we begin tacting, which is soon but I've seen a huge
surge in manding.
Andrea

Hi, If anyone is interested in having a consultant come to help with your
existing program or start one. Please email me privately..We are in the
Pensacola area and she will be traveling to the Panama City area also......JR

I haven't been able to really keep up with the list much recently so I hope I am
not saying something that has already been said on this subject. I noticed the
post from Laura about her son manding for drink but not really wanting a drink
when presented with one. From the post, I cannot quite tell what the exact
problem is but my son, Jonathan, has had trouble with keeping his signs straight
sometimes so I thought I would share some tips we have found helpful.
When Jonathan learns a new sign and it is in the very powerful stage of
receiving immediate reinforcement almost every time, that sign becomes his
favorite to use when excited. For example, he has learned to sign "car" and his
therapists will then take him out. That is a great break for him so he loves
it. "Car" has gotten pretty good and we are now teaching "swim" which is also a
very preferred activity. I have found him signing "car" a lot when he really
wants "Swim". If I know what he wants, the answer is easy. I help him make the
correct sign, and then I am sure to ask again on the way to the "car" or "swim"
as many times as I can, always prompting enough to keep him signing it
correctly.
If I don't know what he wants, the situation is more difficult. We recently
taught Jonathan to tact "table" and he has been using it a lot in situations
that don't seem to indicate he would want the "table". I think he may have
decided that "table" should mean "eat" or "Macaroni & Cheese" (Words he does not
currently have signs for). We might try taking him to the table to see what he
means and if he clearly doesn't want that, we will ask him to show us what he
wants. Sometimes, we just cannot figure it out and have to just say "I'm
sorry". Sometimes though, some member of the team can figure out what
connection he has made and discern what it is he truly wants. Then, we try to
teach the sign for that item or develop a strategy to help him effectively
communicate that need. (Like teach him to go get the Macaroni & Cheese box).
Jonathan is very slow to learn signs so I can't teach too many at once but once
something is pretty important to him we try and find a sign for it quickly
(while we have the motivation).
A child like Jonathan needs to have as many opportunities as possible to ask for
the item(s) he wants in as many situations as possible. We do a lot of
contriving and find with enough exposures, he is able to sort out which sign
goes with what. Putting various items out and allowing him to mand for various
ones definitely contributes to his acquisition and discrimination skills.
One thing I have not found helpful is for people to "admonish" him with "Well,
you said you wanted table, here's the table". It's a lot more effective to
discover the want any way you can and then develop an effective and appropriate
way to communicate that. With Jonathan, it is taking time to develop his sign
vocabulary and he is still at a stage where pointing, leading, and occasionally
pictures will help us clear something up and are appropriate. He does not use
these methods for things he can sign for. Before we began teaching Jonathan to
sign, we didn't get nearly as much pointing or leading and I feel signing has
helped him understand that it is within his power to communicate what he really
wants. He now is much more persistent in trying to communicate any way possible
but has dropped off on the inappropriate communications--scratching and pinching
behaviors-- that he formerly used to quickly communicate.
With Jonathan, the best way to teach is to set up as many situations as possible
to sign and have items in view and then prompt, prompt, prompt until he has it
and not allow him to goof up. Of course, when he spontaneously signs the wrong
thing, then we have him start over and prompt the correct sign. Then we try and
fade our prompt but continue to work on that sign as long as the motivation is
strong.
If Jonathan is having trouble mixing up two similar signs, we might do a lot of
work with those two items out, prompting the correct sign for the correct item
until he can make the discrimination.
I hope this is helpful and not too repetitious.
Carol

Dear listers,
First I would like to thank all of the many wondeful people who sent me there
thoughts, prayers, kind words and suggestions for possible diagnosis. I
appreciate that there are so many wonderful people in this world.
Since so many people asked to be updated I felt that it would be easier for me
just to post to the many lists that I am on.
My official diagnosis as of Thursday is Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and
Fibromyalgia.
they have NOT ruled out the possibility of Multiple Sclerosis and I am in the
process of appealing the denial of the MRI by the insurance company.
I thank you all for your continued prayers and support through this difficult
period.
It has been especially hard because I have no family, and the friends that I
have that live close enough to help are Autism families as well and their plates
are already full!
Please also continue to keep in your prayers the rest of my family, my husband
Scott who suffers from OCD and I think is mildly on the spectrum himself, Laura
age 15 who is suffering from panic attacks which trigger her asthma attacks,
Andrew age 5 who has Autism and little Julia who is undiagnosed but I am 99.9%
certain that she is OCD as well.
We have had a tremendous amount off stress as of late, it is beginning to wear
on my husband and our marriage, we are still commited to one another and love
one another but we are finding it increasingly difficult to be patient with each
other.
We also just found out that the company that my husband works for is dropping
the insurance that we have as it is too expensive, for a plan that doesn't cover
medications/ pays only 80/20 and has a $2000.00 deductible! The medications
alone that we all collectively need are approximately $600 per month so I will
need to find some type of employment as my husband has been looking for a second
job for months and it is difficult due to his irradic schedule at his primary
job.
Sorry for taking up so much list space....again thanks for all the wonderful
uplifting emails etc.
You folks are the greatest!
Donna :-)

I am posting this to the list for a friend. She is moving to UnionTown, Ohio,
near Akron July 10th. She has just begun an ABA program with her child and is
already thrilled with his progress. She is looking for someone to help her get
a program going in her new home in Ohio. I would appreciate any names of Senior
Therapists or Consultants or therapists working in other programs to pass along
to her. She is very new to this. Please email me privately.
Thanks,
Carol Sloan
tsloan@...

Hi, we are currently having a problem with our son manding drink and
saying dahk for everything even when he wants something else, I always
present him with the drink anyway, he can imitate lots of other signs
when they are being modeled, what I am talking about is when we are not
working on a sign he will independently seek us out and sign and say
dahk but when you offer him the drink he pushes it away, this is
frustrating for us and him especially when there isnt anything that is
obvious that he would be asking for, he definitely wants something but
he is not differentiating that each sign means a different item, I think
he is thinking this sign and verbalization got me something I wanted
once why dont they get me what I want now, I am thinking about making a
receptive choices program and put several items out beside each other
and try and get him to sign for each item side by side by saying "What
do you want?" then say the word & model the sign and having him sign for
each item before giving him that item? What do you think? Anyone else
have this problem? Or a better way to address this problem? I would
appreciate any input at this point he probably does this about 50 times
a day!!!! Thanks Laura

Hi,
I wanted to say thanks for the great discussion on the above topics. I am
sorting thru all the ideas and working on the situation. I can't respond
personally to everyone at the moment because it seems that i have some darn
computer problem now! apparently something 'overheats' when it's on too long!
But anyway I love all the ideas and will send updates as they occur.
Thanks, Valerie
mailto:macko420@...

My son is 3. I wonder if everyone would put their child's age at the
beginning of their posts. Many times I don't know if the message is
relevant for my son or not, because I have no idea how old another child's
son or daughter is.
Thanks.
Sally

Hi everyone,
We have had these types of problems before with David. Vince gave us some
simple rules to follow. They are simple, but not easy to carry through
sometimes. If you stick to your guns, you will see a huge difference.
The first point is that when a child has initially learned a new mand,
either vocal or sign or pecs, you do want to give them what they ask for
just about everytime, within reason. Once it is a strong mand, then you
can begin saying no when you think it is appropriate. So, in this case,
with the candy, you decide how much is ok for your child to have in one
day, and how often. Then when they ask, if it ok, give them the amount you
think is ok. If it isn't ok, say no. After that, ignore any additional
requests for candy...........do not say anything, do not look at the child,
just walk away. If they are not yelling, you can try to redirect to
another activity.
So with David, when he first learned to ask for Skittles or gummy bears or
candy corn, we used to give one for each mand. Now he gets candy twice a
day. When he asks, he gets a small bowl of it. When the bowl of candy has
been eaten, that is it until the next time when it is ok to ask (after
lunch and after supper).
The most important thing and the hardest to follow through on is when you
have said no and they keep asking. You just have to ignore and walk away,
or try to redirect to another activity. Pretty soon they will learn that
when you say no, you mean no, and they will quit trying. This rule has
made our life so much better. David had gotten to the point where he
yelled and screamed about anything that we said no to, and we were not
saying no much. This is not good for the child.
I will post the other two behavior rules in a day or so.
Lynda

When doing RFFC and Intraverbals, does my son, Jeremiah, need to have
fully
mastered the various verbs used in the SD's (i.e., Show me something you
sit
on, You sleep in a )? Also, does Jeremiah need to have fully
mastered an understanding of the features and class aspects as well
(i.e.,
Show me something that has wheels, Show me something that has fur, Name
something you drive)? Or are we using RFFC and intraverbals to teach
these
concepts. I hope I am making sense.
I would appreciate any input and/or clarification! I find this list
very
helpful and will be referring to it a lot as we get started.
Hi Rosie (Jeremiah's mom)
I will try to help with your question by using my knowledge from the
verbal behavior program I am a part of now. First off your son does not
need to completely understand the function, feature, or class of any
word you are working with before you start working on RFFC's. This is
when prompting (visual and verbal) come in handy. Also you may want to
try errorless training if he is getting alot wrong. Basically what
errorless is, you have 2 or 3 cards on the table from 2 or 3 different
classes, have your hand in front of all 3 cards and be prepared to block
his hand from responding wrong. If he starts going to the wrong card
block and redirect him to the correct card, give a moderate verbal
praise and redo the trial (correction trial) and praise heavily. You may
also want to do a distractor trial, which consists of a gross motor
imitation or anything else that is relatively easy for your son and
unrelated to the procedure at hand, then go back to the RFFC question to
ensure he was paying attention. Lay on the verbal praise and\or
reinforcer heavy for totally correct responses!!!!
You also want to give hard examples of the things you work with at the
table, such as show me where you sit, after he responds show him a chair
and then demostrate sitting. The real life example will be a much
better way of teaching in the long run, so try to incorporate it into
your training. For example, in our verbal behavior program we do an
hour of RFFC training a day. In that hour we also incorporate anything
in the environment that is directly related to the RFFC procedure done
at the table. We also do a half hour of environment labeling, tacting,
and receptive, which is completely done in the environment. We also
took pics of the environment to ensure generalization, which we sit at a
different location within the house, other than the usual table for
training. You want to make sure you are not only training at the one
table too. Move around your house make any opportunity you are with your
son a training opportunity.
Natalie

Experienced therapist needed for at-home ABA/errorless teaching program. Our
son is 4 year-old, autistic, nonverbal, and bright. Please call (972)203-4450.
We live in Garland, TX--approx. 20 minutes from downtown Dallas.

WANTED: PLAYDATES for our 4-yr-old autistic son. He needs to be around
"typical" boys and girls. We have a 6-year-old "typical" daughter who would
love to play with your autistic child as well. We live in the South Garland, TX
area--about 20 minutes from downtown--right off of highway 30E. I have plenty
of toys and would be happy to hear from you. Please email me privately at
dmaher@... and we can our kids together for a great play session!!

I have had similar problem with my son. He is near 7 and quite verbal;
his biggest stim has always been to script videos, songs and even
made-up logos like "toy store dot com". When I picked up the carpool of
kids after school he would mand repeatedly for 'chocolate ice cream', 'I
want to go to Braum's', 'Mommy, I want chocolate ice cream' to the point
the typical kids in the car pool were promising it to him!!!!!
We chose to capture the opportunity by using the RFFCs associated with
the topic and prompting him as needed:
"Where do you find chocolate ice cream?" A- in the freezer or at Braum's
"What else do you find in the freezer?" A- waffles, chicken, ice,...
p "When can I have chocolate ice cream?" A- after we take John and Mary
home
And then if he perseverated on "When can I have chocolate ice cream?" A-
What did I just tell you? p- "After we take John and Mary home."
"Why do you want chocolate ice cream?" A- because I'm hungry or because
it tastes sweet.
"What other things do you eat if you are hungry?" A- apples, hot dogs,
cookies
or "What other foods taste sweet?" A- cookies, cinnamon toast, candy,
Sometimes the other kids would join in the 'game'. Other times they
would be surprised we were doing the chocolate ice cream rag AGAIN.
Other times they learned to peer prompt like me or in their own way,
"Ethan, stop asking for chocolate ice cream, you are driving me
crazy!!!!" (That was my favorite!)
I am reminded though of what the experts say; if you are getting your
child to come to you, do not make them run away by working it to death.
There is a fine art involved. If the EO for the candy is high enough,
perhaps you can expand the trial with little pieces.
And yes sometimes the answer is "I am sorry, it is too close to
supper." or "After you eat your lunch." If tantrum occurs, put on
extinction and be consistent!
I realize that is a lot to sign, but, hopefully it is an idea!
Best of luck-
Laura

HI All,
Here is one that I haven't seen discussed before.
My nonverbal son has a few signs, mostly for foods. He particularly LOVES
banana runts (a sweet-tart type of candy with a banana flavor). He signs
for this continuously all day long! I mean probably over 100 times/day.
This is a good thing.....except that even with breaking them in 1/2, it's
way too much sugar and dye! If I tell him 'no' he tantrums plus we want to
reinforce his signing.
Has anyone encountered something similar? What should we do?? This is
probably the most motivating item for him and he is doing 'true manding'
for them, meaning they aren't anywhere in sight. Nothing else has come
close to the level of desire he has for these.
Any ideas? Thanks, Val
mailto:macko420@...

Hi Folks. My son is about to complete Edmark level 2 reading program. There
is no level 3. It was suggested that I go with Reading Milestones also put
out by ProEd.
I would like some feedback on this program. My son seems to do better
visually.
I know that Dr. Carbone really likes DiStar for reading and math. What's the
difference between the two? Any help really appreciated. Thanks, Carole

I'm new to the list. I am looking for a workshop anywhere within driving
distance from Northwest Ohio, would greatly appreciate the opportunity.
Thanks, Laura

We have an outstanding young lady who has been part of our team for a year. She
is leaving us to move to Indianapolis to get her Master's in occupational
therapy.
If there's a FEAT-type organization in Indianapolis, or that area, could you
email me privately with details for how she can get in touch with you. She
wishes to continue working while she's in graduate school.
She has my unequivocal recommendation, having succeeded in our program which was
initially the traditional No-No-Prompt, and then for the last 6 months following
more along the lines of VBS, errorless NET.
Now, if only some of you all could provide US with some names for the fall! We
are losing our entire team this year due to graduation. And, they are an
outstanding team..... :(
Ron Kincaid

You have hit the nail on the head, at least as far as my son is concerned. He
has language in him but it is an effort for him to get it out. And yes, I feel
like a tough taskmaster demanding "juice" from him before giving it to him. But
the alternative is worse. And I guess it's also true "no pain, no gain." The
only thing we can do is try to make the language as motivating and as fun as
possible, hard though that is. And then it comes spontaneously, as yesterday
when my husband was walking with him and his brother in the hot weather, I took
the car to go get them, and when Ben saw me, he said "It's a ride." (!!!!) You
could have knocked me down with a feather.
I love this list, BTW. It really does keep me going through those darkest
hours.

Thankyou so very much for the post. I really appreciate it. Will contact you
privately. Thanks again, Carole

About a year ago I heard about an Los Angeles area attorney who has had many
successful fights against insurance companies to pay for ABA. Does anyone
have the name?
Thanks

Hi. I am in need of some information pertaining to medicaid waviors and
schools in two states: North Carolina and Florida. If you can share any
helpful advice/info. it would much appreciated. Thankyou, Carole
ps: I do know about the Jericho school in Florida already :-)

<a thread on vaccinations
this nature from the
autism-awareness-action@egroups.com
We discuss lots of autism related issues. You can sign up for this list
the same way you signed up for DTT-NET at www.egroups.com
Donna :-)
BTW...does anyone have a current list of any of the workshops by any of the
verbal behavior consultans?
Thanks!

Hi Listmates:
My son who is 4.8 now, was diagnosed as autistic 6 mo. ago and has been in a
home program ever since. He's come a long way. He's quite verbal now, but not
quite spontaneous enough! He's very independent, fun loving, affectionate and
intelligent. Very few and unobtrusive behavior problems. Right now he's
attending a regular Preschool, two days a week, with a shadow aide. He's doing
fine...he's learning to follow routines, attend at circle time, do some
activities with or with out prompts, but he still doesn't learn from the
environment. It's been a great place to generalize his skills but not for
learning. NOW...the big question I have ahead of me is whether to send him to
Kindergarten next yr. which would reduce his hours in the home program or let
him continue at the current preschool for generalization purposes and continue
teaching him at home, may be even following the Kindergarten curriculum, in the
lines of Home schooling? BTW, he's already reading 3-letter words and knows his
numbers. My husband thinks that sending him to Kindergarten would be a waste of
his time while he could learn so much more at home. I don't quite know the pros
and cons.
Is anyone out there who has undergone similar thought process and made an
educated decision? Any advice, suggestions, opinions would be very much
appreciated. You may respond to me privately at seemag@...
Thank you in advance,
Seema

Dear listmates,
I have been doing some scripted conversations with my son for last 2 months,
and we had a great sucess. When I told shcool MDT teams, they all surprised
and wanted to implement at school too.
Here are 2 examples,
I want watch TV. Go ahead.
No. Why not?
I need help. What can I do for you?
plug for me. Victor do it (while I an holding to cable
from TV to VCR)
No. Why not?
I can't do it.
Note: Every time he left TV and went somewhere else, I would unplug the cable
and this created many opportunities to practice. we don't have actually TV
programs, just video tapes for him to watch.
I want drink soda. We don't have soda.
yes, we do. Where is soda?
in car. (I would go to car and get soda for him)
open for me. (I would open for him)
I need straw. What color?
red Is this red?
No Is this red?
yes.
Note: we stored our soda pops in the car trunk. Because he needs to sign to
get better articulation, so I dropped some connection words such as "to, the
etc"
The left side was for him and right side for me. I actually wrote them in
different color of pens, so he can tell which line is his (his lines and my
lines are intermingled together). I picked all the words my son can read, so
I don't have to rely on third person or myself to prompt him, sometimes it is
difficult to function as both roles and he would get confused.
After a while, he can just do it without the written version, and he actually
stopped signing part too. We do want him to continue to sign because his
articulation is not "...".
It becomes much easier now when I do some other topics. we locked all the
video tapes and CDs, he has to ask those too. At dinner table he has to ask
for his spoon, cup, water, and napkin (I need XXX); he has to tell me "I'm
full", and ask "can I go"?. To make it interesting he has to pull up his
shirt and show me his tummy by patting on it.
Hopefully this is not something redundant.
Dongfang

Do any of you have the name/address of the Jericho School in Florida? Do
they have a website? Thanks!
Michelle
mwhite@...

Sorry, folks, I gave the wrong address for the clickers.
It's www.difflearn.com (2 'f's, not one). Or call 1-800-853-1057
Cindy (Cary, NC)
persistentC@...

We also live in CA and get 20 hours from the district plus an aide for
school. RCOC only gives us respite hours. We have taken these expenses as
a medical deduction for the past 3 years. Like you, even with the support
from the district we still spend a lot. We deduct all therapy not
reimbursed, medical copays, drug copays, consultant fees, driving costs for
going back and forth everywhere, teaching materials, etc. You have to be
careful not to deduct for things you would pay for a typical child however.
We send a letter in with our taxes each year explaining our situation so
they will not flag us for audit. So far so good!
Cindy

We are beinging to get pressure from our 5 year old Autistic Son's
pediatrician and school system to get "up to date" on his
vaccinations.
Ever since his diagnosis we have "held off" getting him Vaccinations
until we have a better idea that they will do no more damage that
they
potentially have until this point, with good reason as you all know.
I have read earlier that some parents have had their special
children's antibody levels tested and certain percentages in their
systems have been high enough to allow the children to enroll in
school without current vaccinations (shoot, I never had my last
measles vaccination ever and it was never an issue in my schooling).
If these parents have any insight or specifcs on getting him tested
so
we can resolve this issue for his fall term it would be greatly
appreciated. You may email me privately.
Thanks in advance, and best of luck to us all and more importantly
the
children!!!

Writing from California and realiazing that we will be doing an intensive
program for many years we are always looking for ways to ease the financial
burden. Is anyone awhere of agencies other than the Regional Center that we
should contact? Our district is paying for 30 hours/week and regional
center pays for speech, but when you add in session overlaps, staff
training,preschool, community outings, swim lessons, etc. we are actually
paying for 60-70 hrs. We have seen great gains, but it has a major price tag
and we need to start thinking long term.
Our insurance company(Aetna) just denied our claim again. The reason: "this
technique is not considered safe or effective". For us, it has been the
only therapy that has been effective.
Would love to hear from anyone taking the expenses as a medical deduction on
taxes? We have not, but are considering.
Thanks,

Lately, two activities have encouraged my son to spontaneously use words;
drawing and clay.
Drawing:
We have sample picture for tutors to help visualize the shapes on the wall.
We start by saying lets draw a picture and then prompt some words, like
water, boat, sun, birds, boy or do an animal scene or just a person. We
use big pauses and wait for him to come up with ideas for which he says
something for us to draw. I think he enjoys watching it take shape.
Clay:
Using colorful clay, not playdoh. We make different shapes of things. And
now my son is really interested in this, saying all kinds of things, like
computer, table, chair, banana, hat etc... He says it, we try to make it.
We incorporate colors so he hands us the right color to make the object.
I know these are so simple, but there is something in the creative aspect
of these activities that is very powerful.
Diana

Does anyone have the address to the Michigan State site that has signing?
Kimberly

Thanks to all who responded to Donna both on the list and privately.
While she is on the list, she tells me she can't access it anymore.
I have a question too. I am going to Due Process in a few weeks for
a birth to 3 issue and will be asking to implement DTT-NET. As Cindy
discussed, how do you prove to the school district (or EI) that this
method works? I've offered to bring videos in but this won't fly-
they want data and they want the years of study that Dr. Lovaas has
behind his research (and yes, I do have a copy of the reprints on
verbal behavior).
Anyone gone to due process yet on this issue and what was your
experience? Feel free to e-mail privately if you prefer.
Thanks a bunch!
ann

Greetings,
Our team recently started teaching WH?
I attended Dr.Carbone's workshops #1 and #2 in Ohio and have implemented the
different examples he demonstrated.
I was curious if any parents and/or teams have probed additional ways to
teach How?, Why?
Why?: We have tried doing odd things such as placing objects in what seems a
unnatural place, the chair on the table or putting socks on our hands.
Obviously our teaching instruction is not successful or I would not be
addressing the group and I wanted to probe others to get some more
suggestions.
How?: We have tried bringing out noisy toys and hiding them and trying to
get his interested in seeing how it works, our main problem lies in a weak
E.O. again I am simply looking for more suggestions
You can never have enough information.
Elijah's MOM (Michelle)
michelle@...
http://wingo.org

Hi list!
Thanks for the help in finding the oral motor exercises. They were in A
Work in Progress by Leaf and McEachin p.205. They also have a list for
object manipulation with sound (ie. roll car "vroom"). I included the list
of oral motor imitations since so many others said they would like them too.
Thanks again!
Julie M. :)
1. Touch tongue
2. Touch teeth
3. Blow kisses
4. Sing into tube
5. Roll head
6. Pucker lips
7. Blink eyes
8. Stick out tongue
9. Open mouth
10. Frown
11. Smack lips
12. Pout
13. Smile
14. Nod head yes
15. Shake head no
16. Bite lip
17. Puff up cheeks
18. Blow (match in hand)
19. Tongue in cheek
20. Tongue to corner of mouth
21. Wiggle nose
22. Wiggle ear
23. Flap lips
24. Click-click sound
25. Indian sound
26. Breathe in through nose
27. Suck in cheeks
28. Fish lips
29. Yawn
30. Cough

I will be out of the office from 06/06/2000 until 06/09/2000.
If you have questions regarding:
- Project Dude, contact Deborah Hill @ 7-6258
- PM process & tools (incl Gateway), contact Robin Sencal @ 7-7922
- budget related questions, contact Cindy Sievers @ 7-4827
Thank you.

Am i wrong, or wasn't it someone on this list that made a whole lot of ABA / VB
information available on a web site? I seem to remember seeing it.
Also, a little brag. My son Jack (after only 4 months on ABA / VB) had his first
BM on the potty and said "Mummy, poo poo on potty" Of course everyone clapped,
yelled and cried many tears. Never thought i would be so happy about such a
thing.
Nicole

Apologies if you saw the exact same note on the me-list....
Hello all.
I need to hear from someone who knows about Pa's "wraparound" services,
specifically what's required in terms of training providers and/or educators
who are working with children with autism.
We're looking into things here in Ohio (yeah, I know all Ohioans on the list
- we've heard it before) and I need some guidance from my neighbors in Pa.
Feel free to email me privately. Thanks!
Ron Kincaid

Ok, first, I'm sorry to anyone I sent personal emails to thinking I was
sending them to the list.
Second, does anyone know why when I hit 'reply' that I'm replying only to the
individual sender and not the DTT-NET address? Believe it or not, I'm a
programmer and I have a guess as to what might be happening, but I would
consider it a problem for egroups if I'm correct.
Have I missed a post about there being a problem? Apologies if so, please
straighten me out.
I am using the AOL proprietary client email, if that's relevent. Feel free
to email me privately so as to save everyone else the extra email
Regards,
Ron Kincaid

I have a question for everyone out there who has experience with a child with
limited receptive skills. The child I am writing about has been in an ABA
program for 1.5 years, doing VB based program since the beginning of the
year. We are using sign and he has apr. 15 mands. His motor imitation has
improved and most of our targets are fine motor tasks. We are also working
on tacting reinfocers, receptive id of cards of reinforcing items and
receptive instructions. The difficulty is with the receptive programs. With
receptive id, he has little inclination to look at the cards and we are using
procedures to increase this but are still not seeing much progress. With
receptive instructions, we are doing simple commands like stand up, sit down,
clap, turn around, wave goodbye, touch head, give me 5, and give me a kiss.
The ones with nonverbal cues (5, kiss) are independent as is touch head but
for the most part he isn't getting this. Some of these have been targets on
and off for the life of his program and thousands of trials have been run of
each. His mom feels like his receptive skills are improving in a general
setting (she tells him to sit down when she is getting food ready or it's
time to put his shoes on and he sits down on the stairs in the place where
they put on shoes). While there may be some cues that accompany these, I too
feel like he is understanding more. If I tell him to go play without cueing,
he immediately gets up. To me it seems like that his understanding when tied
to an EO is beginning to happen, but in the context of a meaningless command
(clap your hands) there is no motivation to do it. My feeling would be to
shift our focus to teaching receptive targets in more natural contexts within
a situation that has a strong EO. With Rec id, I feel like more natural
stimuli (i.e. the reinforcing objects) would be more successful. I also
thought maybe doing a part mand/receptive ID where the command is to go get,
or show me the item and then he is reinforced with the item. I'm not sure if
this would just confuse the issue and then the response would be controlled
by the motivation for the item rather than what I'm saying.
If anyone has experience with a child who has had difficulty with receptive
skills or would just like to share any advice, we would really appreciate it.
This program is overseen by a consultant but I would like to hear some
advice from others.
Thanks,
Steph

Hi list~
I'm looking for a list of oral motor exercises. Would anyone know where I
could find these? Thanks a lot!
Julie M :)
therapist to Alex

Hi,
I am new to this list except for the funnies I posted.
I have a 4 year old daughter who is very delayed in her language
comprehension and speech. It's my guess that she knows less than 100 words.
She normally does not speak in sentences. She tends to say 1-3 word
sentences and we have a terrible time communicating.
She might say "Give me that". My response would be "Give me what?, What do
you want?", etc. Her response is to say the same thing again with more
emphasis on the "THAT". She won't even give me the benefit of pointing
directly at what she wants, just pointing in a general direction towards it.
She often answers yes to questions that you would expect her to answer no to
and calls me Daddy and him Mommy "accidently" sometimes. Her comprehension
leaves a lot to be desired.
As you can imagine, this is very frustrating. I have been taking her to a
homeopathic doctor who is treating her food allergies with the NAET therapy.
On the first treatment, her speech improved along with the other allergy
symptoms. She began using 7 or 8 word sentences the first day. But we got
behind on the treatment and she went back to normal.
The subject of this list sounds very overwhelming to me and I don't know
where to begin. Hopefully, I will understand better by just continuing to
lurk and listen.
Kandy
Concerned about toxins in your home? Need income?
http://www.freeyellow.com/members8/kandyk00/index.html
Kandy - Aspiring Midwife
Wife to a great man,
Mother of six,
Home-schooler/Home-birther
Love is the answer - Give in to God

I got this info from another list and thought I'd pass it on. Since alot of
kids LOVE to swim and it is an excellent sensory/physical actvity and at
least some of us have this problem I thought you might like it!
Donna :-)
http://www.gabbys.net/index.htm

Hi,
I was wondering if anyone has suggestions as to
Speech/Language/Communication tests for a 4 year old that has learned many
labels receptively and expressively but is still unable to answer questions
that involve memory or have many cognative skills ("what did you eat for
lunch today", put together novel puzzle,etc). I am trying to show he still
has language problems as his recent tests with the PLS, Peabody, and
Expressive One Word Picture showed he was no longer significantly language
delayed.
I estimate that he knows about 500 labels, a 4.4 yr old should know at least
1200+ words.